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dtgreene: ...
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alcaray: That's just the state of D&D at the time. Monsters of various levels could show up and you had to run away sometimes. Leveling *was* slow. Surviving and getting enough ep to level was a struggle. It was more rogue-like in those days. People rolled up new characters pretty often.
The problem enemy was not a monster, but rather a sidequest NPC.

Also, there's one main quest NPC enemy early on that, for a mage protagonist, will kill you if you don't get off your spell first.

Icewind Dale doesn't leave you at such a low level for so long. In fact, Wizardry 1, while also rough at the start, doesn't leave you at such a low level for long, either.

(In all these games, it of course gets easier once your mage reaches level 5 and gets access to the first mass damage spell, though in BG and IWD you need to also find a scroll of the spell.)
Just to clarify, I don't recall a single NPC able to cast Improved Invisibility in the original BG1.

Anyhow, it all boils down to what you enjoy and personal preferences. I love both BG1 and Fallout even though they play differently, and I don't like the sequels for both series. Yet I don't think it means that either mentioned game is good or bad.
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Tuthrick: Just to clarify, I don't recall a single NPC able to cast Improved Invisibility in the original BG1.

Anyhow, it all boils down to what you enjoy and personal preferences. I love both BG1 and Fallout even though they play differently, and I don't like the sequels for both series. Yet I don't think it means that either mentioned game is good or bad.
It was in an early quest where you end up fighting the quest giver.
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Geromino: ...

Right. Sure. Totally.

The funniest part is that you praise Fallout right after.

Fallout 1 starts with AN ENDLESS DUNGEON that kills any newbie.

"Balanced" ? LOL
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dtgreene: I can't speak for Fallout, but I'd argue that Baldur's Gate 1 does have a problem related to balance. It just doesn't feel fair.

At level 1:
* Your attacks have a very high chance of missing, which is frustrating. It's quite possible for you to get a streak of misses.
* An enemy's attack, if it hits, can kill you in one hit, particularly if your character is a mage or thief. If that happens, it's an instant game over, and you're prompted to reload. (And you couldn't prevent this because your attacks kept missing.)
* It doesn't help that, when you die, you can't view the combat log; it instantly takes you to the game over screen, with no indication of what happened. (Although, to be honest, this is more of a problem in BG2, where what killed you could be something like an instant death spell that could have been prevented if you had cast the right protection spell before hand, but it would help to know that it's an instant death spell that killed you in that instance.)

It also doesn't help that:
* The game keeps you at level 1 for far too long.
* When I was playing, still with a level 1 party, I ended up being attacked by an NPC that cast Improved Invisibility, which a level 1 party can't reasonably be expected to deal with.
All you admit there is that you dont know how to play the game.

You are literally trying to tank on a wizard or rogue in a game in which not even actual fighters should face tank, and then you complain that doesnt work.

Well duh, no it doesnt.

Well then maybe think over your strategy. Its really brutally obvious how to avoid death in BG1.

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dtgreene: Also, there's one main quest NPC enemy early on that, for a mage protagonist, will kill you if you don't get off your spell first.
No you dont.

Again you just show you dont know how to play the game and blame the game for it.
Post edited May 12, 2026 by Geromino
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dtgreene: I can't speak for Fallout, but I'd argue that Baldur's Gate 1 does have a problem related to balance. It just doesn't feel fair.

At level 1:
* Your attacks have a very high chance of missing, which is frustrating. It's quite possible for you to get a streak of misses.
* An enemy's attack, if it hits, can kill you in one hit, particularly if your character is a mage or thief. If that happens, it's an instant game over, and you're prompted to reload. (And you couldn't prevent this because your attacks kept missing.)
* It doesn't help that, when you die, you can't view the combat log; it instantly takes you to the game over screen, with no indication of what happened. (Although, to be honest, this is more of a problem in BG2, where what killed you could be something like an instant death spell that could have been prevented if you had cast the right protection spell before hand, but it would help to know that it's an instant death spell that killed you in that instance.)

It also doesn't help that:
* The game keeps you at level 1 for far too long.
* When I was playing, still with a level 1 party, I ended up being attacked by an NPC that cast Improved Invisibility, which a level 1 party can't reasonably be expected to deal with.
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Geromino: All you admit there is that you dont know how to play the game.

You are literally trying to tank on a wizard or rogue in a game in which not even actual fighters should face tank, and then you complain that doesnt work.

Well duh, no it doesnt.

Well then maybe think over your strategy. Its really brutally obvious how to avoid death in BG1.

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dtgreene: Also, there's one main quest NPC enemy early on that, for a mage protagonist, will kill you if you don't get off your spell first.
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Geromino: No you dont.

Again you just show you dont know how to play the game and blame the game for it.
The main character is going to be at the front of the party, and in the case of the plot NPC I mentioned, I believe the NPC is scripted to go right for the main character.

Even otherwise, you can't control who the enemies attack.

Also, even a fighter can get unlucky, keep missing, and then killed because the enemies got lucky.

For that sidequest NPC who you end up fighting, there is no way a level 1 party can counter Improved Invisibility.

Also, not knowing how to play the game is a valid excuse when we're talking about the early part of the first game in the series; the player has not yet had a chance to really learn how to play the game well. Games should start out easier, to give the player a chance to get used to the gameplay, and only then ramp up the difficulty later on.
Err no, the main character is not at the front of the party in BG1+2, unless you tell them program to do exactly that.

You can control who the enemies attack much better than in BG3. Its almost always just whoever is closest.

I have played BG1+2 douzens of times, usually on a Sorcerer. The enemies never targeted me. (*)

They do that in that EE addon, uh Black Pitts. But not in the main game.

And yes if you go into the wrong areas you WILL die. Thats by the way true for BG3, too. Thats why the game gives you directions where to go. Ignore at your own peril.

That said yes there is a way to reveal Improved Invisibility even at level 1, though it doesnt matter. The enemies that use Improved Invisibility are not meant to be faced at level 1 and will wipe the floor with you either way, even if you manage to dispel their Invisibility.

(*) Okay admittedly the original BG1 didnt have Sorcerer as class, so that was a mage back then. Sorcerer in BG1 is a bit boring anyway, since it takes so long until they get a decent number of spells.
Post edited May 14, 2026 by Geromino
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Geromino: Err no, the main character is not at the front of the party in BG1+2, unless you tell them program to do exactly that.

You can control who the enemies attack much better than in BG3. Its almost always just whoever is closest.

I have played BG1+2 douzens of times, usually on a Sorcerer. The enemies never targeted me. (*)

They do that in that EE addon, uh Black Pitts. But not in the main game.

And yes if you go into the wrong areas you WILL die. Thats by the way true for BG3, too. Thats why the game gives you directions where to go. Ignore at your own peril.

That said yes there is a way to reveal Improved Invisibility even at level 1, though it doesnt matter. The enemies that use Improved Invisibility are not meant to be faced at level 1 and will wipe the floor with you either way, even if you manage to dispel their Invisibility.

(*) Okay admittedly the original BG1 didnt have Sorcerer as class, so that was a mage back then. Sorcerer in BG1 is a bit boring anyway, since it takes so long until they get a decent number of spells.
* The main character is at the front of the party if you don't go out of your way to change that. Plus, there's no guarantee that you'll have that many companions early, since some of the early ones are listed as Evil if you check their character sheets.
* Someone new to the game won't necessarily know that enemies attack the closest character.
* I believe that invisible casting enemy was in a place I was supposed to go, in a sidequest.
* Would a newbie know how to remove Improved Invisibility and expect it to be used enough to invest in that capability?

One other thing I remember: If the enemy uses spells such as Entangle or Hold Person, and you then kill the enemy, the spell will still remain in effect, forcing you to wait before you can continue, and that's annoying.

(Some of these problems go away with familiarity with the game, but that doesn't help a first time player, and other probelms are still present.)
Okay, this is getting too riddiculous.

You have no clue how to play BG1 simply because you didnt bother to think about what you're doing, you didnt experiment, and you didnt look what others are doing either.

So thats why you suck at this game. And now you blame the game for it and act as if your way of incompetent playing the game is how everyone would play.

BG1 was a big success and BG2 an even bigger success. Part of the reason was that they offered a challenge. You're not willing to find out how to play the game, fine. Then just play whatever people who cannot handle a challenge enjoy then.

But that doesnt mean those are bad games.

By the way, I find early BG3 much more unforgiving than early BG1. Opponents like the Spiderqueen or the enhanced Owlbear are really no fun the first time around, and even the best strategies and builds I have found so far dont have an easy time against them.
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Geromino: You have no clue how to play BG1 simply because you didnt bother to think about what you're doing, you didnt experiment, and you didnt look what others are doing either.
How should I be expected to already know how to play the game when it's my first time?
Just my two cents... The UI is archaic, that didn't age well at all (besides the graphics but that has it's charm).

The game has a manual, every game pretty much did. You were supposed to read it first, and even though I never read the one for BG, I did use the one for Planescape and that one explained the interface in detail, including the fact you could change characters order in it dragging the portraits.

You were expected to read the manual. Nowadays, we don't even get manuals... So no, it did not age well, but most newbie problems mentioned in here had a way to be avoided in the frankly gargantuan manual.

Off to the shadows again...
Post edited May 15, 2026 by jonridan
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Geromino: You have no clue how to play BG1 simply because you didnt bother to think about what you're doing, you didnt experiment, and you didnt look what others are doing either.
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dtgreene: How should I be expected to already know how to play the game when it's my first time?
Yikes.
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jonridan: The UI is archaic, that didn't age well at all
Ironically I like it better than the PITA that is the BG3 UI.
Post edited May 20, 2026 by Geromino
The biggest impediment to a modern gamer, methinks, is how the esoteric Vancian magic system is implemented — I cannot count how many times I have had a character cast a spell that I later accidentally interrupted, either because I thought it had been cast or that I had not cast it when I thought I had!

That was probably the most important (UX) update from the vanilla version.
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jonridan: Just my two cents... The game has a manual, every game pretty much did. You were supposed to read it first, and even though I never read the one for BG, I did use the one for Planescape and that one explained the interface in detail, including the fact you could change characters order in it dragging the portraits.

You were expected to read the manual. Nowadays, we don't even get manuals... So no, it did not age well, but most newbie problems mentioned in here had a way to be avoided in the frankly gargantuan manual.

Off to the shadows again...
I disagree.

It is quite possible to play Baldur's Gate with no understanding beyond a rudimentary grasp of the rules, as provided by the in-game tutorials, if you are paying attention and sufficiently clever. (Most children are.)

I did read the manual but not immediately, since I was familiar with the DND ruleset/s. (The manual holds important details that are not necessary when starting a game beyond strategic choice of abilities, skills, traits, and feats so as to maximize their utility.) In other words, the manual is for drilling down into the details when those details make sense, after first comprehending the basics.